http://www.uranus.fi/en/discussion/open.php?id=41593&page=46
Some Foreigner
28.3.2008 23:08
If there's enough food here in Finland, then why in the name of God ( I can't swear on this line ) do you have food lines - Charity that gives free food to poor people - as the only nordic country???
My wife was always told that to be born in Finland was like winning the lottery. Now what kind of lottery exactly? If you win you get punished?
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Mikey84
31.3.2008 23:34
Hey, at least Finland is a member in the Nordic Council, so... :)
And you're right, nowadays Finland clearly is a class society. I mean, the situation has been better than it is now. Really. Our government doesn't care enough about ordinary people living in this country. That was already seen in the early 1990s. Instead of helping people to survive their massive debts and bankruptcies and other economical problems, what did our government decide? To support the banks. And all the documents about the meeting where this was decided, are top secret. There is still a whole bunch of Finns in serious economical crisis because of that. This is just one example of many similar ones.
Yes, Finland really is different from other Nordic countries. The others share similar linguistic and cultural background. And we Finns are also a different "race", so...
The possible reason why we consider ourselves as Nordic lies in history: we were part of Sweden about 600 years.
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hepe hepe
3.4.2008 9:24
Never like the overdone porcelain myself, a bit of a Hiacynth Bucket style it is:)
Amanda, the way I see and hear even on a daily basis (shopping centres or parks) how the little Thai woman follows her bread winner from Finland, showes very clearly who rules in the house. I met at leat few of the Asian women here and none of them impressed me as an interesting type. Some were extremely hysterical, shouting and crying loud when upset even in the company of friends or strangers (I don't know, maybe it's the part of their culture but I felt scared).
And why do you think it's impossible to be a nice, beautiful, gentle, subtle, sophisticated and mysterious women same time as being independent, wise, strong emotionally and knowing your value as a person?
I have met so many of such ladies in my life, they run businesses day time, big businesses but that does turn them into being harsh or masculine types. On the contrary, the way they look, dress, behave usually makes men to be full of admiration and galantry towards these women. Which helps in business too:)
Geisha type is not my type. Viking muscular feminist either.
Woman with beauty and style and wisdom - that's it. And self-respect too.
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Some Foreigner
5.4.2008 13:20
Jan & A Finn
No, let me ask you this: Are you proud that a rich country as Finland has starving people?
Finland is saving on everything just so that the elite can get richer. As one wrote in the newspaper "Lansiväylä": "In Espoo Cars are more important than kids!". Which is absolutely true. I'm doubting wether a finn would cry more if his kid died or if they took his car from him. It's about priorities. When it comes down to business I doubt wether the two of you would actually be willing to make real choice - eg. pay more tax - ask real questions like why are the finnish people being kept from the money that belongs to them. If you had solidarity in your country you wouldn't have foodlines. But you're just about as solidaric as Putin's Russia. But as it is finns are being split apart effectively by a small elite and the only thing that can unite you is if Some Foreigen comes and critizises you.
So it's back to the question: are you proud over your foodlines? And what can YOU do about them?
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Some Foreigner
8.4.2008 14:37
Jan & Hepe Hepe
At least I got your attention:-)))
Let me state that the thing about cars and kids was written by a finn.
Let me also state, that you're not doing such a good job of debating yourself. I haven't been insulting you. Just your beloved country. Your answer is angry and personal, beyond any healthy debate. AND you have absolutely no sane arguments as to how you wanna deal with poverty in your country. It can be summoned up to: " well everybody else is doing it, so why can't we do it!". The truth is that Denmark, Norway and Sweden - whom you compare yourself with - actually are doing a pretty good job of taking care of the poor, and have been doing it for decades, whereas here they are being hidden away only to come out when there's free food to be had. You don't like problems. You try to get rid of them, like you try to get rid of me with cheap arguments like I should hate Finland and such. It's just a cheap trick that allows you not to adress the real problem here. That Finland is a very egoistic country where sharing is not naturally part of the agenda. The only dualism you'll find in Finland is not that of a finn and his fellow finn, but that of the finn and his country. You only stick together when under siege.
Try to tell me some about Finland and not what they do in Singapore. I could also argue that because in the US they stick needles into arms of convicts and kill them, I'll do the same here. Now that wouldn't make it right, would it? Two wrongs don't make right!
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Some Foreigner
8.4.2008 23:32
Hank!
Let me get this right! I point out a problem - in this case your foodlines - and you find ME direspectful. I mean I have a thesis that in Finland you shoot the messenger. That if I as a foreigner point out some problem. Instead of solving the problem you'd rather get rid of me. Because without me there is no problem. You just proved me right.
And as for the generations that worked for Finland. Give me a break! You chose the wrong side in the WWII and as all nazi supporters you had to pay the price. Now why don't anybody feel sorry for that? Had you not attacked the Soviet Union alongside with Germany, the "generations" would not have needed to work that hard. Life would have been better for many - but you made a mistake! So if that offends you Butter-butter, as you finns say - Voi Voi:-)))
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Some Foreigner
9.4.2008 8:38
Flank!
You are absolutely right. Finns make HUGE mistakes. In my proffessonal life here I often wonder as to the amateur way they run things. Had it only been in the private sector but we all remember the Sonera (or was it Elisa) scandal where alot of money was lost and never recovered. Some finn is very happy somewhere! This was even warned against in german papers. Or the Alliansi football club who lost 8 - 0 when - convineantly - the whole underworld had bettet against them:-) This is the wild west in many ways.
Which is their choice! My problem with all of that is that the stupid gits always describe these mistakes as nescessary steps on the way to a higher Finland. Many historians use the terms :" it might not have been good at the moment but it proved to Finland's advantage later!" In other words the finnish leaders are omnipotent with great insight into the future. I mean come on! Is it so hard to admit to a mistake?
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Some Foreigner
10.4.2008 7:53
Jan!
But they didn't go to war! And there is a point there. You chose to join the German operation Barbarossa. It was just about reclaiming lost areas. The dream of Great Finland was very much involved in your warplans. That is also why nobody cares about your wining over the lost Karelia, just as nobody care to listen to the germans when they want back areas in Poland. You lost them in a war you shouldn't have started.
And here comes my point. You made a mistake joining Hitler, still - you demand that the truth be "the continuation war" - hence the "continuation" of the winter war where a little country (in the eyes of the world) was attacked by a bigger one. You claim that the two belong together. Ok - they were both about teritory - wich war isn't? - but that's what they have in common. And our leaders went to war so that we after the second world war could be an independant nation and not under the Soviet Union. So Mannerheim posessed godly qualities did he? He could see the future? I don't think so.
You made your mistakes, but you refuse to admit to them and therfore you'll never learn. Finland is pure, Finland is clean. All evil comes from outside - foreigners and such. It's not a healthy attitude for a nation to have. It's exactly what can lead to extremism - which you also see alot of in Finland.
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Some Foreigner
11.4.2008 16:06
I don't agree with you, Pod. At the time of the operation Barbarossa Stalin had just changed a big part of the officers in his army. Now who would do that just before an attack? Also the story goes that the counterattack on the germans came so late simply because Stalin didn't believe that the germans were attacking.
What I believe is that SU from '39 - 40 got the teritorry they neede for a "buffer-zone" to the west and actually felt quite safe. I don't believe in the agressive russians. Historically they haven't been. Also during the cold war, it was largely americans who were agressive, whereas SU was more defensive. The "invasion of the slavic hords" is a myth. It's the westeners - France, England, Germany and the US that are traditionally agressors. And if you don't believe me - what is America doing in Iraq? Do you think they are there for "Freedom and Democracy"?
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